alt.support.childfree FAQ

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This is the list of frequently asked questions (FAQs) from the Internet newsgroup news:alt.support.childfree

Subject: FAQ for alt.support.childfree
Date: Fri, 01 May 98 21:41:28 GMT
From: seiler@ma.ultranet.com (Scott Eiler)
Organization: SEILER (Software Engineering Integration Lab/Electronic Resources)
Newsgroups: alt.support.childfree,alt.answers,news.answers

Contents

Childfree By Choice Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) List [edit]

Here is the list of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for the alt.support.childfree Usenet newsgroup. This FAQ will be regularly posted to alt.support.childfree, alt.answers, and news.answers starting about 1 November 1997. It is available on the Web at http://www.ultranet.com/~seiler/cbcfaq.htm. The Childfree Photo Gallery is linked there, and it has further links to the home pages for everyone in the newsgroup who's volunteered them. The alt.support.childfree Collection is also linked there; this contains some memorable posts, such as the "Arkansas Bible" and the "Die Little Baybee" song.

Supplementary answers are encouraged! If you have comments, either post to alt.support.childfree, or e-mail me, or both. My address is seiler@ma.ultranet.com.


Authors of this FAQ (so far) are as follows:

  • B = Bill. Original writer of the FAQ topics.
  • DH = Dan "Yer answer man" Harding. The resident EvilCruelMeanBastardFromHell (TM) and local Curmudgeon. (And oft-times greeter of the newsgroup.)
  • RC = Rebecca Cosand
  • CO = Charles Olsen
  • SE = Scott Eiler. Renegade Hoosier resident in Massachusetts and/or anywhere for a buck, computer programmer, and freelance Bible scholar. And amateur baby-sufferer. Jesus said "Suffer the children", but he never had his own babies, did he? Maintainer of this FAQ.
  • MW = Marisa "Consummate Cat-Sitter: Feline Fantasies Fulfilled" Wood. Pagan Unitarian, 20-something bisexual feminist, author, musician, manic-depressive On Drugs, collector of music by women composers and singers, and unrepentant foodie who loves ethnic cuisine and anything chocolate!
  • JM = Janet Marsten
  • JR = Julie Revelben
  • R = Rabbit
  • IB = Ilene Bilenky
  • LG = Liz Guzzi
  • RK = Robin Kornides.
  • DK = Dani Kokkarinen.
  • ML = mlisow3736@aol.com .
  • LK = Larry Kahn.
  • KT = Kettir.
  • FV = Fox's Vixen.
  • KZ = Karl Zadoc.


Disclaimer: The information in this document is a matter of opinion, as is the entire newsgroup it represents. As such, nobody here takes responsibility for incorrect or inaccurate information in this document, beyond correcting the error in the document.

Why does alt.support.childfree exist? [edit]

  • Because we get sick and tired of people snooping into our bedrooms and we want to pitch a fit when they go too far and piss us off. (RC)
  • I suspect it started as a support group for people who could not have children, and eventually, so many people responded saying "We're better off without them and so are you" that people who are Childfree By Choice (or CBC) took over the newsgroup. But whatever its origins, alt.support.childfree is now a support group for people who don't want children. (SE)
  • There are lots of things in this world that bug people (isn't there even a site on the net for discussion of nothing but peeves??), and I think this newsgroup just gives CBC'rs a place to rant about things that bug them regarding kids, parents, and people who nose into their lifestyle. I beleive (at least I hope) that it is nothing more sinister than that. (LG)
  • alt.support.childfree provides information, discussion, a supportive environment, and a place to blow off steam for those who have actively chosen to be child-free. We also welcome those who are in the process of choosing, or those who have been been forced to remain, for various reasons, child-free. WARNING: Anti-child or anti-parent sentiments are sometimes expressed here; if this offends you, please read no further!
  • alt.support.childfree is not affiliated with the childfree mailing list http://www.childfree.net/cflist.html, but our goals are the same. Its rules make an awfully good guide for posts to our newsgroup. (D, SE)

So, you all hate chilllllll-druuuuuuun? [edit]

  • Chilllllll-druuuuuuun are quite nice actually. With bearnaise sauce and a good Merlot. 8) (MW)
  • No, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that :) Child-haters and non child-haters are equally welcome. A common misnomer is that this group is overflowing with child-haters; in actuality I think there are more parent-haters than child-haters. (DH)
  • Not all children. I like my cousins and one of my neighbors' kids. Most of us have a problem with lazy parents, not so much of a problem with kids. (RC)
  • No, some children are a delight to visit with (although it doesn't make me want any of my own). The real problem is parents who refuse to discipline their children appropriately and train them so that the rest of us won't mind having them around. Those are the parents who have kids and then expect the rest of us to support those kids and teach them how to be human beings. (KT)

Don't people hate you for your unpopular stance? [edit]

  • But of course they do. Does it matter? :) (DH)
  • Who cares. (RC)
  • Some do. Bite me. (CO)
  • Which unpopular stance? My Paganism, my feminism, my bisexuality, or my CBC status? 8) ... But seriously, if I hear "You'll change" or "It's just a phase" one more time, so help me, I WILL go POSTAL!!!! (MW)
  • Oh come now, it's not like we're proposing to ship our surplus children to the Congo for famine relief or anything. Despite the answers you see above, we actually get along nicely with lots of parents, some of whom even post to this newsgroup. (SE)
  • I've been very fortunate. My relatives have never given me any grief about not having children, and none of my friends or co-workers seem to care whether I have kids or not. I had no idea how much grief others get about not wanting kids until I started reading a.s.c. (KT)
  • They don't seem to hate us as much as want to help us see the 'error' of our childfree preference. We seldom agree with them. And sometimes we can't manage to agree to disagree. (RK)

Why does your newsgroup have all those "flame wars"? [edit]

  • Because of trolls. For some reason, some people who would never think of starting an argument in support groups like alt.support.shyness or alt.support.grief don't hesitate to troll to our particular support group. (SE)
  • There will always be kiddies whose parents don't monitor their Internet activites, as well as jerks who don't have lives of their own and can't get attention from anyone except by trolling groups like a.s.c. Parents who resent our childfree lives also like to try to "convert" us because they can't understand that we just don't want children, and when they realize we really don't want kids, I think this causes them to question their own lifestyle and so they take out their conflicting emotions by calling us "child haters". (KT)

What is a troll? [edit]

  • The term "trolling" originally came from the sport of fishing. One casts one's line out onto the water and "trolls" it back slowly, trying to tempt a fish to bite. A twit who is trolling on Usenet is trying to get people to "bite" by responding to his flamebait. The image of a mythical "troll" waiting under a bridge to bite you as you walk over it is somewhat appropriate also, but is not the original meaning. (KT)
  • "Troll" is the common Internet term for a contentious post to a newsgroup, in an attempt to start an argument. (The person who makes the post is called a "troll" or "troller".) Arguments are okay for many newsgroups, but not for any newsgroup under alt.support. People who came to alt.support.childfree looking for support have actually been scared off because of the amount of argument here. In the case of support newsgroups (such as this one), a troll is anyone who is not supportive. (SE)
  • Someone who knowingly posts flamebait to a NG is called a troll. The place for trolls is under bridges, and not on alt.support.childfree. (MW)
  • Usually they are under 12 and require constant attention to feed their fragile "self esteem" IMHO, a trolls self esteem can be crushed by the other troll next door not sharing a Malibu Barbie. (Don't get me started on Barbie! I hate Barbie! I hope Barbie gets vd and dies.) (RC)
  • Ignore them. (JM)

What do all those acronyms and other strange terms mean? [edit]

  • CBC and CFC = Childfree By Choice, meaning we really Really want no children. Most people who post to alt.support.childfree are not only proud of being CBC, we're smug about it. (SE)
  • PNB: parent-not-breeder.
  • BNP: breeder-not-parent.
  • Sprog: according to someone's dictionary, it started as a sailing term meaning a "new guy", but has changed to also mean a child (whether it's an insult or not depends on who's using it!)
  • Breeder: used by some to mean anyone who has spawned, used by others when referring to those whose kids are a menace to society!
  • Childfree vs. Childless: most of us prefer the first term, since we don't feel we're LESS of anything for not having kids. It's a fortunate (and usually deliberate) absence of something we don't want, rather than an "empty" state requiring pity. (DK)

The Bible says for us to be fruitful and multiply. How do you rationalize your lifestyle choices against *that*? [edit]

  • We don't. Bite me... Seriously, I think this is a good question. I have heard this question more than once from breeders who felt it was their duty to convert me to breederism. (CO)
  • My neighbors are fruitful enough for the both of us. (RC)
  • The Bible (specifically the letters of Paul) also encourages people to be childless so as to dedicate more time to God. (SE)
  • Not everyone accepts the bible as a spiritual authority. (MW)
  • I get this a lot. I usually just tell people, "The Bible is wrong." Doesn't change their minds, but the mere fact of my saying that does tend to set them on their arses. (FV)
  • Well, I consider the bible to be a wonderful work of fiction and as such I center my life around it about as much as I would, say, Stephen King's "The Stand" (which I might add while not having as convoluted a plot has *much* better character development). (DH)

Why all the off-topic postings? [edit]

  • Sorry... it's kinda like a big childfree cocktail party. (B)
  • We can't share anecdotes about our *wonderful* children, so we talk about music and Huey Lewis' wrinkles. (RC)
  • Well, this is alt.SUPPORT.childfree, and sometimes you have to support people by talking about things they want to talk about. (SE)

Don't you hate it when a kid....? [edit]

  • Yes. (DH)
  • All the time. (RC)
  • Yes. And it makes me resent the parents who haven't taught that child better. We need to blame the real source of the problem. (KT)
  • Why yes I do. And we're all here to tell our stories. (SE)

Sheesh, my loser neighbors let their kid.... [edit]

  • As do most parents...unfortunately. (DH)
  • Do whatever they want and it REALLY f*ck*ng pisses me off, goddammit, hallelujah! (RC)
  • Run wild like wolves in a pack all summer long. Are these the same people who walk their kids to the bus stop every morning during the school year? Do they think Child Molesters go into hibernation every summer? (KT)
  • Yep, but I scare the neighbor kids something fierce, so I figure we're even. (SE)

Yeah, but *you* were chilllllld-ruuuuuun yourselves once. [edit]

  • Not everyone's perfect. (DH)
  • I was too young to know any better. (RC)
  • Yes, but we got better. (CO)
  • Well, I didn't ask to be. (SE)
  • My parents *wanted* children. They paid our way and taught us right from wrong without expecting society to do it. When today's parents do that, I will stop complaining about the kids rolling through my flowerbed and screeching outside my windows. (KT)

But chilllllllld-ruuuuuuuun are our future! [edit]

  • Future consumers of energy and drains on the planet. (RC)
  • God help us. (B)
  • So is death, but I tend not to dwell on it. (DH)
  • Stop, you're scaring me. (CO)
  • Yes they are, sort of. But there's nothing more satisfying than warping the minds of other people's kids while their parents aren't looking. Then the future is yours too, without the problem of screaming babies waking you up. (SE)
  • Only if you believe that as soon as those children turn 21 every older generation will retire. I expect to work until the day I die. I am my own future. We are making our future RIGHT NOW. We can't cop out by saying that somebody else is the future. When I'm dead, it certainly won't mean anything to me if the human race goes on or not. Making a baby, or even a clone, does not make you immortal. You yourself will still be dead someday. (KT)

What if your parents felt that way? [edit]

  • How do you know they didn't? (IB)
  • Then I would have been the child of *other* parents! (RK)
  • Is that what passes for logical debate on your planet? Seriously though, positing what-ifs of that type is pointless. You might as well ask, "What if your parents hadn't had sex the night you were concieved?" (KT)

Don't you worry about who will take care of you when you are older unless you have chillllllld-ruuuuuuuuun?[edit]

  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (JR)
  • I have a "chosen family" of friends, and we all take care of each other. (MW)
  • I have a bank account and a retirement savings plan. (R)
  • I'm sure any hypothetical spawn of mine are really looking forward to getting named as trustees of my retirement fund and putting me in the nursing home. Thanks anyway, but I'll bet I can handle that myself. (SE)
  • Children aren't slaves. You can't force them to take care of you when you grow old. You are just as likely to end up in a nursing home paid for by the state because your kids can't afford to pay for your care due to the expenses of their own children. (KT)

How difficult is it to get a tubal/vasectomy? [edit]

  • I hear it's easy for men (on the order of an hour or two, snip snip, tie tie). And men can still generate "samples" for doctors to test for sperm content afterwards, so I assume that men who've had the operation are still "fully functional". It's more difficult for women, but still there are women on this newsgroup who have had the operation. (SE)
  • I had a much easier time, before and after my tubal, than I thought I would. My primary-care dr. approved my request for a tubal referral (at the ripe old age of 27 ;> ) with very few questions asked. I had the surgery on a Friday, and was back to work on Monday. By that time, I didn't even need painkillers, although I couldn't do any heavy lifting for about two weeks after I got my tubes tied. Physically, it's pretty much business as usual--I have a normal sex drive, I ovulate, I have normal menstrual cycles. Emotionally, I've decided my family's problems with my decision are just that--THEIR problems--and I do not need to make them MINE. I know I made the right choice for me. (MW)
  • Keep in mind that the rate of failure for a tubal is much higher than doctors are willing to admit, and the rate of failure is higher the younger you are. Make sure that your doctor uses the absolute most dependable method. If he jokes around about failure, tell him to drop dead and find yourself a doctor who cares about your desire to avoid pregnancy. (KT)
  • It was most undignified. But painless at the time. And it doesn't hurt much now, though it is a bit uncomfortable sitting around with ice in my pants. My only regret about the surgery is that I waited this long to do it. (KZ)

Where else can I go for support? [edit]

  • The ChildFree Network formerly based in California has gone out of business. Leslie Lafayette gave up the ChildFree Network and the newsletter because of personal commitments. She will still be available as a CF spokesperson. Leslie gave her mailing list to a new CF group in Florida. The ChildFree Association 1971 W. Lumsden Rd. Suite 186 Brandon, FL 33511 (ML)
  • The ChildFree Association mailing list is http://www.childfree.net/cflist.html. (SE)
  • Visit Sprogopolis, my ideas on how a city should REALLY be run. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/1285/sprogop.html. (LK)

Copyright © 1998, by the authors mentioned above.

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